Welcome to the Laser section of the monoplane forum!
Re: Hi
The aileron has a long shaft that "twist" with bearings at the fuselage. I think is what you call in english torque tube. Zero play and gaps mean no play zone in the controls. I like it a lot, are there Edges with push rods as the Extra and Staudacher? I will wonder what are the benefits, apart from easier instalation and maybe 0.1 pounds lighter.....
-
Guicensoni
- MPF Competitor
- Posts: 39
- Joined: 10 Sep 2016 10:37
- Location: Brasil
- Contact:
-
MonoPlaneForum
- Site Admin
- Posts: 59
- Joined: 26 Aug 2016 10:33
- Location: Kansas
- Contact:
Re: Laser!
Welcome to the forum! Beautiful airplane. I didn't realize how popular the Laser is. I rotated your picture, right-side-up, I hope you don't mind.Guicensoni wrote:Hi Guys, I'm building a Laser in Brasil, it took about 5 years till i started it, now it's about to go!!!, here goes a pic from 1 year ago, it's in a shop now and will soon be bring back to the airport for runups and flight!!!
Re:
Great looking aircraft. Really love the Canopy/turtle deck. Do you have any details on it?Guicensoni wrote:Hi Guys, I'm building a Laser in Brasil, it took about 5 years till i started it, now it's about to go!!!, here goes a pic from 1 year ago, it's in a shop now and will soon be bring back to the airport for runups and flight!!!
-
One Winged Junkie
- Your Friendly Moderator
- Posts: 201
- Joined: 11 Sep 2016 14:12
Re: nice airplane
Very nice!! Welcome to the forumGuicensoni wrote:Hi Guys, I'm building a Laser in Brasil, it took about 5 years till i started it, now it's about to go!!!, here goes a pic from 1 year ago, it's in a shop now and will soon be bring back to the airport for runups and flight!!!
-
Guicensoni
- MPF Competitor
- Posts: 39
- Joined: 10 Sep 2016 10:37
- Location: Brasil
- Contact:
Re: Welcome to the Laser section of the monoplane forum!
Thanks guys, I don't have the datas for canopy and turtle deck, but i can give you any information you need. I created a community at FB "akro laser" with lots of pics!
Best regards
Gui Censoni
Best regards
Gui Censoni
Re: Hi
The push rod system is the better system depending on how the ailerons are done. I don't know how Edge did the hinges or what airfoil they used on the torque tube wing. The Laser wings with the torque drive used strap hinges for the ailerons and didn't have setback hinges. The push rod wings are the newer style.Anthony-NYC wrote:Sorry for the noob question, but why would go with one vs the other? Flexibility, more direct control input?davevon wrote:That will definitely be a BEAST!
Which Edge wing are you using? Push rod or torque tube?
Dave
Dave
Re: Welcome to the Laser section of the monoplane forum!
Hi Devon
I have flown (unlimited WAC and EAC hard) about every airplane out there with push rods ailerons and torque tubes. From Extras 330 through 200, Edges, Staudachers, Suckoi 29 and 31, Zlins, Velox, Laser, Pitts, etc.... Only one with cables, a Cliped wing Cup and that was.... Well not ideal.
Trust me, I don't consider the torque tube inferior, maybe lighter inertia because the asociated mass rotates close to their CG very few distance. Trust me, they are light in mass specially compared to all the mass moving long distance in the push rod. Trust me, this have been adressed ONLY very recentlly with very light carbon flight control tubes, so unless you are flying one of Extras 330 series, or one of the Red Bulls highly modified later versions of Edges and MXs chances are that there is a ton of steel weight traveling long distances each time you do a fast full deflection.
About twisting? Well lets say Unlimited have plenty of rolls at high speeds these days, and could not feel any, not a slightly hinch of flex... I can tell you I feel the mushy of fabric covered ailerons at high speed, but not any twist of the tube.
Allso flying hard these planes, requires tons of atention to gaps, balancing and aileron settings to feel confortable with each one preferences, both mechanically and aerodinamically (here we are comparing only the mechanical part). Most of my planes flying push rods had required plenty of work and settings in order to be play free against the simplicity and easy of a torque tubes (wich as you mention allso have some push rods untill movement is transfered to the torque tube).
It may be "trendier" because it is a "new" way, but don't think from the pilots view it is an inferior design. Actually the bigest difference I see is flom the installing removing point of view, wich is more complicated, but most of us do that only once every to many years....
I have flown (unlimited WAC and EAC hard) about every airplane out there with push rods ailerons and torque tubes. From Extras 330 through 200, Edges, Staudachers, Suckoi 29 and 31, Zlins, Velox, Laser, Pitts, etc.... Only one with cables, a Cliped wing Cup and that was.... Well not ideal.
Trust me, I don't consider the torque tube inferior, maybe lighter inertia because the asociated mass rotates close to their CG very few distance. Trust me, they are light in mass specially compared to all the mass moving long distance in the push rod. Trust me, this have been adressed ONLY very recentlly with very light carbon flight control tubes, so unless you are flying one of Extras 330 series, or one of the Red Bulls highly modified later versions of Edges and MXs chances are that there is a ton of steel weight traveling long distances each time you do a fast full deflection.
About twisting? Well lets say Unlimited have plenty of rolls at high speeds these days, and could not feel any, not a slightly hinch of flex... I can tell you I feel the mushy of fabric covered ailerons at high speed, but not any twist of the tube.
Allso flying hard these planes, requires tons of atention to gaps, balancing and aileron settings to feel confortable with each one preferences, both mechanically and aerodinamically (here we are comparing only the mechanical part). Most of my planes flying push rods had required plenty of work and settings in order to be play free against the simplicity and easy of a torque tubes (wich as you mention allso have some push rods untill movement is transfered to the torque tube).
It may be "trendier" because it is a "new" way, but don't think from the pilots view it is an inferior design. Actually the bigest difference I see is flom the installing removing point of view, wich is more complicated, but most of us do that only once every to many years....
Re: Welcome to the Laser section of the monoplane forum!
Hi Billyto,
With the Laser it's the extra overbalance mass in the spades that really add to the inertia. Check out the section on "Repairs, upgrades and things to look for", I go into more detail on the ailerons and I've linked a video that may shock you with how far overbalanced the ailerons are! http://www.monoplaneforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21
I just happened to sit in a few airplanes yesterday to feel how much inertia they have In the ailerons, a Laser with a Staudacher wing, Red Bull Race Edge - not a V-2, and a Edge 540T. They were all very close to the same feel for aileron inertia and significantly less than mine.
An interesting thing about the Edges is that because pushrod from the control stick column up to the first belcrank is only on the right side the weight from that cause the ailerons to bias to the right with positive G and left with negative G. I doubt you would notice it in the air unless you tried to fly hands off upright then inverted
Dave
With the Laser it's the extra overbalance mass in the spades that really add to the inertia. Check out the section on "Repairs, upgrades and things to look for", I go into more detail on the ailerons and I've linked a video that may shock you with how far overbalanced the ailerons are! http://www.monoplaneforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21
I just happened to sit in a few airplanes yesterday to feel how much inertia they have In the ailerons, a Laser with a Staudacher wing, Red Bull Race Edge - not a V-2, and a Edge 540T. They were all very close to the same feel for aileron inertia and significantly less than mine.
An interesting thing about the Edges is that because pushrod from the control stick column up to the first belcrank is only on the right side the weight from that cause the ailerons to bias to the right with positive G and left with negative G. I doubt you would notice it in the air unless you tried to fly hands off upright then inverted
Dave
Re: Welcome to the Laser section of the monoplane forum!
Yea Dave
It think we aré in the same point here. It is a particular aircraft with its peculiar system configuration.
More than push rods vs torque tubes kind of thing. Both things have very very slight milimetrical advantages and draw backs. But both systems are perfectly good.
Reminds me of push pull or pull whatever kind of suspension in Fórmula 1. Every few years, when everyone is having the same configuration one team switches to the other configuration and it states it is superior.... Years after al have same configuration and another team shitches back...
By the way Dave you aré a lucky person with si much good aircraft arround....
Jorge
It think we aré in the same point here. It is a particular aircraft with its peculiar system configuration.
More than push rods vs torque tubes kind of thing. Both things have very very slight milimetrical advantages and draw backs. But both systems are perfectly good.
Reminds me of push pull or pull whatever kind of suspension in Fórmula 1. Every few years, when everyone is having the same configuration one team switches to the other configuration and it states it is superior.... Years after al have same configuration and another team shitches back...
By the way Dave you aré a lucky person with si much good aircraft arround....
Jorge