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Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

The Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum credits the Laser 200 for bringing about a new generation of aerobatic aircraft
Holtzy822
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by Holtzy822 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:05 pm

Good news and bad news, good news is I got my plans and hope to start building the rudder tomorrow, bad news is that the plans still call for torque tube ailerons and I have no clue how to build pushrod ailerons... I also plan to do the long 100"+ ailerons.

Guicensoni
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by Guicensoni » Thu Nov 17, 2016 6:26 am

Holtzy822 wrote:Good news and bad news, good news is I got my plans and hope to start building the rudder tomorrow, bad news is that the plans still call for torque tube ailerons and I have no clue how to build pushrod ailerons... I also plan to do the long 100"+ ailerons.
Devin York may send you the z300 wings drawings with the push rod schemes...

Gui Censoni

davevon
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by davevon » Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:03 am

Guicensoni wrote:
Holtzy822 wrote:Good news and bad news, good news is I got my plans and hope to start building the rudder tomorrow, bad news is that the plans still call for torque tube ailerons and I have no clue how to build pushrod ailerons... I also plan to do the long 100"+ ailerons.
Devin York may send you the z300 wings drawings with the push rod schemes...

Gui Censoni
Another option would be to have Greg Panzl build you a wing. Better airfoil (Staudacher), stronger, proven great ailerons and it's wood with carbon caps. I think it may also have fuel. If I were starting from scratch it's what I would do in leu of building my own wing.

Greg Panzl: wingtiptowingtip@comcast.net

Dave

moderator edit: I used the Image button to hide the email address from unregistered guests..

Billyto
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by Billyto » Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:54 am

Hi Dave

What would be the price in the market for a newly built wing? I owned an Staudacher, but never new at what price the wings where seling.... any ball numbers?

davevon
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by davevon » Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:15 pm

Billyto wrote:Hi Dave

What would be the price in the market for a newly built wing? I owned an Staudacher, but never new at what price the wings where seling.... any ball numbers?
No idea for sure what a new single place Staudacher wing would go for, I'm sure Greg could quote you a price. Randy Wilhite is doing the 2 place Staudachers now. Tom Edwards quoted me a price of $42K for one of his wings. The carbon wing that Devin was selling was $29750 + shipping (from Brazil?). Last I heard Devin was hoping to price his new carbon wing at $29500.

Dave

Guicensoni
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by Guicensoni » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:29 pm

Devin's carbon wing is made in Hungary...

davevon
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by davevon » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:44 pm

I don't think you're thinking of is his latest wing. Last I heard the molds weren't finish yet.

You may be thinking about the wing from Corvus in Hungary. Not sure if he is selling that wing now.
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Dave

Holtzy822
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by Holtzy822 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:06 pm

davevon wrote:If I were looking at building a wing there's a few things I would do different from my current wing.

• Box spar with carbon caps, lighter, stronger and easier to get the wood.
• Double the nose ribs.
• Minimum 5/8” rib to spar gusset blocks.
• Push rod ailerons.
• 25-28% Displaced aileron hinges. Super Stinker style.
• Long ailerons, I would go another bay longer than my 96” ailerons.
• Constant chord ailerons.
• Narrow hinges with a captured bearing at the root of the aileron to the wing. Maybe 4 hinges per aileron.
• No aileron tip balance weight.
• Fuel in the wing.

If the stock wing is flown hard the nose ribs have a tendency to break loose from the spar.

The ailerons are usually the weak link in a Laser’s performance and feel. The new style ailerons would be lighter in feel and inertia with a higher roll rate and Vne.

I’ve got belly fuel drop tanks, fuel in the wing would make it so much easier to go to distant contests.

All depends on what the goal is :-)

Dave
Few questions,
1: ply covered ailerons, good idea or bad, I'm assuming bad due to weight
2: displaced hinges, is this possible with the torque tube drive, would I just have to displace the torque tube 25%
3: how was the drop tank plumbed in. My family is a 4 hour flight from where I live now and it would be nice to make it in one shot. Not very interested in wet wings though due to potential rotting and leaking problems if not done correctly.
4: longer ailerons, if I build them to 107", would the extra drag offset the roll rate?

Sorry about all the questions, just trying to build it right the first time.

N23LZ
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by N23LZ » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:11 am

Concerning ply covered ailerons - Adds a LOT of weight - every gram added behind pivot will have to be balanced in front of pivot. I picked up One Design ply covered aileron after it was balanced. The thing must have weighed over 10 lb. !!
As one famous person once said - 'simplicate & add lightness'

davevon
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Re: Repairs, Upgrades and things to look for.

Post by davevon » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:43 pm

I agree, just covering the ailerons with plywood would add a lot of weight exactly where you don't want it. I guess it might be possible to re-engineer the ailerons to use maybe 1/32" ply and keep them the same weight. Going to that extreme you might as well go with molded carbon ailerons.

My question is why would you consider the torque tube drive system? In a new build I think the disadvantages would outweigh the advantages... What are your plans for the aileron hinges? If you're thinking torque drive tube just attached to the inboard rib of the aileron you'll need to have molded carbon aileron to be stiff enough. The flexibility of the wing/aileron system plays an important role in how high or low your flutter speed will be...

The longer ailerons, especially constant chord ailerons should have less drag per roll rate vs. the shorter, tapered ailerons. They will have more drag as the roll rate goes up. They will also noticeably improve low speed roll rate. Constant chord may be more of an advantage than just longer ailerons. The tip of the wing is where you'll get the most advantage from the ailerons.

My Laser is setup for twin torpedo fuel tanks under the fuse. There are square vertical tubes welded in the lower fuse to accept square insert tubes of the tanks. There is a fitting in the belly of the fuse that can be capped for the tanks to attach to. The fitting is plumbed to the auxiliary port of the Christen wobble pump. Pretty simple, I haven't had the need to try it yet... The Staudacher's and Panzl's all have fuel in the wings.

Before committing to anything on the wing you may want to get a hold of Tom Edwards in Colorado too. He has a lot of Laser wing and retrofit experience.

Dave

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