Laser Purchase

[reconaviator]

Hi all,

Im knew to the forum. I am interested in the purchase of a Laser. There are two on Barnstomers that I am looking at.

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified ... R-200.html

https://www.barnstormers.com/classified ... o-One.html

I have been researching them a little bit, but i am still not all that knowledgable. My intent of the aircraft is to fly competition and potentially get into airshows. If capable I would like to fly the Laser next to RVs for formation aerobatics (I'm on a team).
1. Will Laser will keep up with the downhill acceleration of the RVs. I think the Laser 230/Acro One may but wondering about the 200.
2. What is the difference between a 200 vs 230 (and Acro One?)
3. Confirm unlimited aerobatic envelope looking for a solid +-7Gs
4. I understand there is some things about the torque tube ailerons. This can be mitigated by modifying, changing to Carbon fiber, and going to pushrod. How hard are these to accomplish. For the aircraft advertised above, the 230 has carbon ailerons, the 200 does not.
5. What do you all think about the valuation between the two aircraft. The 230 seems overpriced? The 200 seems like a good price?
6. What do i look for when purchasing these aircraft.

Thank you all,
I'm excited about the possibility of getting one of these. Like the performance and like the history of these aircraft.
Scott

[Slick540]

Scott

Good morning from South Africa. The Slick 360/540 was a copy of the Laser and build from fibreglass and carbon in the case of the 540.

Comparisons between tubular tail section and profiled tail section are that the aircraft we flew that were almost identical except for the tail section would prove that flick rolls are far more precise with profiled horizontal stab and rudder than rag and tube.

Whenever you decide to purchase an acro aircraft is to investigate the ease of selling your aircraft again one day which is aided by good scores at competitions or the airshow success achieved.

I have flown my Slick 540 for 7 years and 440 hours from advanced to unlimited. I am based at an airfield with 5480 feet above sea level so on hot days 8500 feet DA is common.

Unlimited aerobatic programmes have become more strenuous on both pilot and airframe due to the improvements in lightweight construction and more powerful engines. Computer-aided airfoils designs have also played its role and it has become more difficult to compete against pilots with modern aircraft like the Extra 330s, Xtreme(Sbach) and gamebird etc. We refer to them as point and shoot aircraft but there is a $400K+ price tag associated with these type of aircraft. Thanks to these more capable aircraft, unknown sequence designs have become more involved and challenging to the older design aircraft, still capable but the workload on the pilot that much more.

If you fly near sea level you are able to fly most unlimited sequences with a 4 cylinder but at altitude, lets say in Denver CO, you will battle and regardless of where you fly there will always be competing class 6 cylinder aircraft with ample more performance.

On the judging line, the human factor plays a major role and although judges are supposed to take the characteristics of the aircraft into consideration they have become so accustomed to the shape of the extras that unless you are Rob Holland that will do excellent in a box cart, you are at a disadvantage.

That said the barrier to entry to aerobatics is always the affordability of owning a capable aircraft and buying the laser is so affordable that you will have bags full of $$ to spend on the incredible upgrade to improve your ability to fly more precisely. That upgrade is called AVGAS.

From my experience where I started to fly competition aero's back in 2010 with a YAk52, then 2 years later I upgraded to a Yak55 and then a year after that to the Slick540, whatever you buy now will be temporarily owned.

Airshows are an entire different cattle of fish, No judges telling you how bad you have just flow but the discipline gained in competition aerobatics is what will keep you alive through airshows if you listen to that little voice in your head telling you when NOT to push the envelope.

So for airshow flying the ability to fly from A-B with speed with the minimal of fuel stops and good cruise speed and the ability to pact 2-4 days of clothing is essential. If the laser you are interested in does not have 3-4 hours of endurance then you need to reconsider.

As for your question about down line acceleration, the wing design of the laser 200/230 will be as fast as an Extra300. The vertical penetration will be better on any 6 cylinder aircraft unless you fly a 4 cylinder with minimal weight.

In the cruise, the RV's wing design is designed for cruise lift whereas the aerobatic airfoil has to generate drag to create lift. Therefore you will have the same potential cruise speed with different fuel burn. The prop at the end plays a massive role with acceleration vs top speed.
When a fellow team member still flew his MX with exactly the same engine as my Slick but with a Harstsell Claw prop and MT on the Slick I would have to reduce power during formation takeoff not to outperform but at full power in the cruise, he was able to cruise at 215 knots and I only could only achieve 208 knots at max power.

In my opinion, the Laser is a great affordable aerobatic aircraft and a great stepping stone to something else down the line.

Enjoy the journey, Unlimited aerobatics is the most fun you will ever experience but also the most strain on the body, fuselage and bank balance to maintain your proficiency.


Regards

Neville Ferreira

https://youtu.be/hQoVa4ELmC4
https://www.saturdayswithdaniel.com

[davevon]

Hi Scott,

If you haven't found one, here's one to consider:
https://davevon.wixsite.com/laser-230

Regards,
Dave

[reconaviator]

Neville & Dave,

Thank you so much for the information! I am embarrassed to say that I found this group made my post, then got caught up in all the complications of life and forgot about this forum. I just came back across it tonight and I am so glad i did!! Again sorry to not respond. I value the input, and definitely value this forum.

The good news is I found a Laser. I bought it from Brian down in LA. I flew it for half a year, was able to place in my first Contest, which was a blast. I then flew it out to Memphis to fly it while on airline reserve. Unfortunately the fuel tank developed a leak. I actually had to replace the tank (which took pulling the engine). Since i was doing all that, I decided to completely replace the electrical system, add a MGL Extreme Engine monitor, new instrument panel, ADSB and a few other things. So, its been down since October. However I am finishing it up this week. So excited to get it back in the air.

When I was flying it. I was amazed on the handling. Its a great little airplane. Will keep me busy for a couple of years.

Thanks again.
Scott